heathens vs heretics  

 

uoSʎWodɹɐH
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29/04/2019 1:01 pm  

So to a Catholic a Protestant or Eastern Orthodox Christian would be a Heretic but NOT a Heathen and a Pagan or Heathen would certainly not be a Heretic, which is what most people get wrong. ... A heretic is someone who goes against the normal or accepted ideals of a religion. They are a “freethinker” or “nonconformist”.

My father would say some of the funniest things. Not being serious just joking.

He would say to me:  " Son, I love you but its not an easy thing to do, because your a heathen who's feet stink and you don't love Jesus"

Everyone loved my father.  He had no enemies. He would keep everyone laughing.

L&R

 

I was bound to be misunderstood, and I laugh at the idiots who misunderstand me! Kind mockery toward the well-intentioned and unfettered cruelty toward all would-be prison guards of my creative possibilities. In this way I learn to revel as much in misunderstanding as in understanding and take pleasure in worthy opponents. Making language fluid, flowing like a river, yet precise and pointed as a dirk, contradicts the socialistic purpose of language and makes for a wonderful verbal dance—a linguistic martial art with constant parries that hone the weapon that is the two edged sword of my mouth.


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GregBO
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29/04/2019 1:14 pm  

Great post Harpo!  There are indeed many, many people in today's world that have convinced themselves that because they have an issue with a specific passage of scripture, or a policy with an established church, that all those who do not believe as they do are non-believers.

I feel that this will unfortunately become more and more prevalent as more "social justice" issues become defacto standards for conduct and personal bearing.

​"What we have done for ourselves alone dies with us; what we have done for others and the world remains and is immortal." -Albert Pike

​"​My father didn't tell me how to live; he lived, and let me watch him do it.​" - Clarence Buddinton Kelland


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Matcha Savage
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29/04/2019 3:56 pm  

...except there are no ‘normal’ and/or ‘accepted’ ideals of any religion, that would be universally applicable.

As soon, as you leave one region, what has been normal and accepted there, has already become something else.

There are tens of thousands of Christian sects, alone. Each and every one declared the others to be heretics, so ‘normal’ and ‘accepted’ are no standard for anything at all in the grand scheme.

That is, since the Pope does not have the power anymore to burn all heretics at the stake. Thank god for that!

So, why do you give any crap about what’s ‘normal’ or ‘accepted’ to people belonging to a certain group of categorization?

 

Because it is the  one and only category that holds nothing other than the truth?

 

Then you do not need any categorization besides, then you know that there are liars and deceivers abusing ‘holy categories’ for  worldly gains, which is a sound argument to not overestimate or even use categorization or abstraction as a whole.

 

Every day is the lord’s. It is in the detail.

 

Wherever you are and whatever you do: you may take your time to wash and balm your - or even someone else’s feet.


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uoSʎWodɹɐH
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29/04/2019 4:30 pm  

Matcha Savage wrote: except there are no ‘normal’ and/or ‘accepted’ ideals of any religion, that would be universally applicable.

The ‘normal’ and/or ‘accepted’ ideal  is that your right to believe is hanging on your Respect for others rights.

I cannot signal virtue while condemning you and challenging your right to your own belief.

We should always fall back on individual interpretation as a standard rule.

This is from mans law  and is a good rule concerning interpretation.

16 Amer Jurist prudence section 97 The constitutional law section.

That a constitution should receive a literal interpretation most favorably in favor of the clearly intended and expressly  designated beneficiary is especially true when protecting the rights of the citizen.

Note that it did not say "THE" constitution. It stated  "A"   constitution. 

The Bible is my constitution and I would give you the right to interpret it in your favor.

This is contingent on you respecting my right to interpret it in my favor. 

The mutual respect is the only way to make it  "universally applicable."

Those who refuse to respect the beliefs of others are stuck on the outside of the heavenly jurisdiction. 

My father's words again: "son, be respectful because you only have to disrespect "ONE"  (not everyone)  to be considered a disrespectful person"

Respect is given not earned! I am to old now to take time out of my life to earn your respect. 

It is trust that must be earned! You can lose someones trust in a moment and it could take a lifetime to earn it back. 

Tell the truth, because when you lie to anyone, you are only lying to yourself, because the next time you look in the mirror you will know your looking at a liar. We cannot hide from ourselves.

I would never speak bad of, or condemn anyone for not thinking the same way I do.

I can only give my honest testimony and if my "love and respect" will not convince them to come I must leave them to God the judge of all !!

L&R

I was bound to be misunderstood, and I laugh at the idiots who misunderstand me! Kind mockery toward the well-intentioned and unfettered cruelty toward all would-be prison guards of my creative possibilities. In this way I learn to revel as much in misunderstanding as in understanding and take pleasure in worthy opponents. Making language fluid, flowing like a river, yet precise and pointed as a dirk, contradicts the socialistic purpose of language and makes for a wonderful verbal dance—a linguistic martial art with constant parries that hone the weapon that is the two edged sword of my mouth.


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GregBO
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29/04/2019 6:31 pm  
Posted by: Matcha Savage

...except there are no ‘normal’ and/or ‘accepted’ ideals of any religion, that would be universally applicable.

There are tens of thousands of Christian sects, alone.

 

Check Matcha.  As a junior enlisted member in the US Army (1985'ish), one of my principle jobs was consulting three binders (3 ring - 5" deep) that contained all the 
"accepted / identified" religious codes for use by soldiers to coordinate religious affairs.  There were 755 defined U.S. centered Baptist churches at that time.  The 999 (no identified religion) was very rarely used, but most soldiers indicated that they did not attend any religious function routinely. 

​"What we have done for ourselves alone dies with us; what we have done for others and the world remains and is immortal." -Albert Pike

​"​My father didn't tell me how to live; he lived, and let me watch him do it.​" - Clarence Buddinton Kelland


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The Evil Genius
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29/04/2019 6:48 pm  

OK Harpo I gotta ask, where does "Apostate" show up on the scale? 🙄 


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uoSʎWodɹɐH
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29/04/2019 7:28 pm  

The Evil Genius  asked:  where does "Apostate" show up on the scale? 

That depends on who's scale you are referring to. 

I respect everyones right to have a belief or have no belief.

In fact  Evil Genius I could also fit that description.

As I understand this is what you are referring to:    (let me know if I have misunderstood you.)

Apostasy (/əˈpɒstəsi/; Greek: ἀποστασία apostasia, "a defection or revolt") is the formal disaffiliation from, or abandonment or renunciation of a religion by a person. It can also be defined within the broader context of embracing an opinion contrary to one's previous beliefs.[2] One who undertakes apostasy is known as an apostate. Undertaking apostasy is called apostatizing (or apostasizing – also spelled apostacizing). The term apostasy is used by sociologists to mean the renunciation and criticism of, or opposition to, a person's former religion, in a technical sense, with no pejorative connotation.

 

Most Christian churches are of the 501c3 tax exempt charitable "corporation" status variety. 

My Bible says a church is founded on a marriage to Jesus Christ.

The state creates all corporations  and what the state creates is something Jesus could not have created.

The law is clear on the state creating a religion or favoring one over another.  That is unlawful.

As soon as the church becomes incorporated with the state it becomes a charity not a church.

Not only a charity but a charity open to the general public.  Believers and non-believers alike no discrimination allowed.

I look at these entities as unlawful state created religion  just as I look at democratic socialism as a religion.  (The worship of other peoples money)

I do not have a scale in my fathers kingdom.  I will accept that the general public are welcome to attend but only faithful believers may become members.

So I may fit your definition of apostate. I strongly reject all state created religion.

I cannot become incorporated because my father forbids me holding any and all public office even the office of corporate board member for a state run charity.

I hope this answers your question  Evil Genius.

The people failed to keep the state separate from the church and the state started regulating Jesus out of the services. 

L&R

 

I was bound to be misunderstood, and I laugh at the idiots who misunderstand me! Kind mockery toward the well-intentioned and unfettered cruelty toward all would-be prison guards of my creative possibilities. In this way I learn to revel as much in misunderstanding as in understanding and take pleasure in worthy opponents. Making language fluid, flowing like a river, yet precise and pointed as a dirk, contradicts the socialistic purpose of language and makes for a wonderful verbal dance—a linguistic martial art with constant parries that hone the weapon that is the two edged sword of my mouth.


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Matcha Savage
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29/04/2019 8:24 pm  

In case you missed what I wanted to express: the designations of `heathen´, `heretic´, `apostate´ or even `faithful (sanctioned/approved/authorized) believer´ are all ARBITRARY and CHANGING to begin with, if you let anyone decide what is what at a given time.

But I cannot believe you missed that, because you stated this yourself:

"leave them to God the judge of all !!"

😀 Yeah, Harpo! Ain´t it funny how all these people do run around making themselves out to be the court(-marshals) of public opinion? The judge of all does not give a flying fuck, which one of the self appointed, self important and -mesmerized earthly authorities has just gotten to the top of the dung heap to bathe in transitory glory -and says what while at it.

 

 

 

 


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uoSʎWodɹɐH
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30/04/2019 5:13 am  

Matcha Savage wrote:  In case you missed what I wanted to express: the designations of `heathen´, `heretic´, `apostate´ or even `faithful (sanctioned/approved/authorized) believer´ are all ARBITRARY and CHANGING to begin with, if you let anyone decide what is what at a given time.

But I cannot believe you missed that, because you stated this yourself:

"leave them to God the judge of all !!"

😀 Yeah, Harpo! Ain´t it funny how all these people do run around making themselves out to be the court(-marshals) of public opinion? The judge of all does not give a flying fuck, which one of the self appointed, self important and -mesmerized earthly authorities has just gotten to the top of the dung heap to bathe in transitory glory -and says what while at it.

I don't miss anything when in the fathers spirit.  He is only my God and judges only all I do. He is no one else's God and your correct that he cares not who is at the top of the authoritative dung heap.  My God is the judge of all that I do. He is exclusively my God.

Pastors and preachers across this nation by the hundreds of thousands stand in front of people every Sunday morning and make the claim that the holy spirit of their heavenly father has come over them and they are paid to make this claim.

Do they own a monopoly on God?

Is their father more holy than mine? or more heavenly?

I tried to walk into a church and give a testimony of some spiritual truths in my life and the persecution began.

If it were not for the teachings of my earthly father and his spiritual guidance I would be lost today.

Humans tend to cling to their beliefs When the beliefs of another runs counter to theirs, they become confused, scared and even hostile.

Consider the words of some wise men.

Benjamin Franklin said:

"when a religion is good I conceive that it will support itself :  and when it cannot support itself and God does not take care to support it, so that its professors are obliged to call for the help of the civil power, it is a sign, I apprehend of its being a bad one!"

Sir James Mackintosh From critical and historic essays (1865ed) vol 1

"The doctrine which, from the very first origin of religious dissensions, has been held by all bigots of all sects, when condensed into a few words and stripped of rhetorical disguise is simply this : I am in the right, and you are in the wrong. When you are the stronger, you ought to tolerate me : for it is your duty to tolerate the truth. But should I be the stronger , I shall persecute you : for it is my duty to persecute error."  

Works of John Wesley, vol 8

condemn no man for not thinking as you think. let every man enjoy the full and free liberty of thinking for himself. Let every man use his own "JUDGEMENT", since every man must give an account of himself to God.  Abhor every approach, in any kind or degree, to the spirit of persecution. If you cannot reason or persuade a man into the truth, never attempt to force him into it. If love will not compel him to come, leave him to god , the judge of all.

I wrote this all long hand from memory while in jail.  You now know where those words came from.

I take liberty to add RESPECT  as it is my belief that there can be  no LOVE without it.

If she does not respect you she certainly cannot love you.

L&R

 

I was bound to be misunderstood, and I laugh at the idiots who misunderstand me! Kind mockery toward the well-intentioned and unfettered cruelty toward all would-be prison guards of my creative possibilities. In this way I learn to revel as much in misunderstanding as in understanding and take pleasure in worthy opponents. Making language fluid, flowing like a river, yet precise and pointed as a dirk, contradicts the socialistic purpose of language and makes for a wonderful verbal dance—a linguistic martial art with constant parries that hone the weapon that is the two edged sword of my mouth.


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Matcha Savage
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30/04/2019 1:24 pm  

HarpoMySon, who is `she´, again? I like this bit a lot:

John Wesley wrote: Let every man enjoy the full and free liberty of thinking for himself.

Let every man use his own judgement, since every man must give an account of himself to God.


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uoSʎWodɹɐH
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30/04/2019 6:35 pm  

Matcha Savage asked: HarpoMySon, who is `she

God is the creator of us all.  Mankind is a two part united being. When a marriage happens two become as one.

The female is the more valuable half because the master is always more valuable than the slave. The men are the slave who serve the master.

Why else would the male be expected to bow down on one knee to propose?

Should she be a real genuine woman then you are blessed because she understands this and respects your sacrifice.

Should she be less than a woman or just a selfish female human being Then she has no respect and thus no love for you.

"She"  is any female you or any male is contemplating enslaving themselves to.

No one is the servant of God.  He is able to protect and provide for his own needs.

He becomes the slave serving our needs. 

Men are not gods but they are the closest thing this earth has and they are much more than just adult male human beings.

Jesus is a selfless  man who gives all of himself not a selfish human being who takes all he can get.

L&R

 

I was bound to be misunderstood, and I laugh at the idiots who misunderstand me! Kind mockery toward the well-intentioned and unfettered cruelty toward all would-be prison guards of my creative possibilities. In this way I learn to revel as much in misunderstanding as in understanding and take pleasure in worthy opponents. Making language fluid, flowing like a river, yet precise and pointed as a dirk, contradicts the socialistic purpose of language and makes for a wonderful verbal dance—a linguistic martial art with constant parries that hone the weapon that is the two edged sword of my mouth.


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Matcha Savage
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01/05/2019 10:49 am  

I am not contemplating enslaving myself to a female human being, but thank you very much for the reminder. I respect your beliefs in a being of two -united by marriage, as well as your views of the more or less valueable part of that unified being, yet I cannot see this one bit for myself or the even women I came to know. So, with all due respect, I just want to express this opinion of mine:

Dafuq kneeling before a creature that bleeds for a week, but doesn´t die!

For one I have no business to "get some respect" by sacrificing myself to a woman, however `real´ she might be, because that is pure, simpish white-knight blue-pill trad-conning in my eyes, it is lying to myself in the first place -but that is only me and I wish you enjoy your life in any way you are pleased.

`She´ is a unicorn and I do not say this to disrespect you and your freedom to choose for yourself whatever you wanna. I just want to let you know, what and how I see this.

 

For those interested, Men Square (formerly known as Replicant Fish) on the subject:


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Matcha Savage
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01/05/2019 11:04 am  

Of course, that was only the beginning:


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uoSʎWodɹɐH
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01/05/2019 1:34 pm  

I will never be the less valuable half again for the same obvious reasons that you stated. 

So we totally agree regarding that dynamic of marriage.

My mother asked me at four years old who I wanted to live with and I became the only child my father gained custody  of

she set me free or emancipated me.  

As hards as it is watching her lose her mind.

I must look after her in her twilight years. 

Men and women create, while male and female humans destroy!

I am all for saving as many men as possible from indentured servitude as most of our members are.

I also wish to be honest and trustworthy  while doing it.

I will be the person I  wish to be.

Not the person the authorities say I am.

I believe that is the essence of going my own way. 

I also believe that  becoming the person my father was is an evolutionary step in my own human life or the  very transition from the human to the man.

Because of this I will be treated as a specimen to be studied and watched like an experiment. 

We have no reasonable expectation of privacy in this age of post modern life.

I have accomplished enough just by finding my true purpose and it is time to let my father live again.

L&R

 

I was bound to be misunderstood, and I laugh at the idiots who misunderstand me! Kind mockery toward the well-intentioned and unfettered cruelty toward all would-be prison guards of my creative possibilities. In this way I learn to revel as much in misunderstanding as in understanding and take pleasure in worthy opponents. Making language fluid, flowing like a river, yet precise and pointed as a dirk, contradicts the socialistic purpose of language and makes for a wonderful verbal dance—a linguistic martial art with constant parries that hone the weapon that is the two edged sword of my mouth.


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Uly The Cunning
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12/05/2019 11:33 pm  

Females have declared superiority over men, and demanding that it be acknowledged. They cannot actually beat men in anything, so they use males to enforce this lie. This has driven a gap between many in society, and will continue to do so for as long as the lie is embraced. What makes you a man is never forgoing the value instilled in you for this lie. Men will rebuild and fix all that is destroyed, when the males are thusly destroyed by the females that continue the chaos. 

"Remember, you're fighting for this woman's honor, which is probably more than she ever did."
Groucho Marx: Duck Soup (1933)


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Matcha Savage
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13/05/2019 6:46 pm  

Ahem, so, what is it? Are you a man (the less valueable half in your own words) or not?

Hell, why has this to be so complicated with so many people, nowadays? What is it, now?

Aside from that:

Referring to "the good guys and gals" as "men and women" and "the bad guys and gals" as "males and females" is such a weak-sauce to be totally honest.

Can´t see, why anyone would want to use this language pattern. So, now, does this make me a "male", I mean, a destroyer of an idea?

Well, then, I just think, it is a bad idea, so here we go.

 

 


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